Sean Lavilla's Journey from Military Service to a Life on the Road

In today's episode Tiny Home Tours founder Chris Penn and Sean Lavilla dive  into Sean's fascinating nomadic lifestyle. From his military background to fully embracing truck camper life, Sean takes us on a journey filled with unique experiences. The conversation explores remote work, income strategies, personal development, entrepreneurship, and the nuanced choices that come with an unconventional lifestyle. Tune in to discover valuable insights on successfully transitioning to a nomadic life and  overcoming the challenges it brings.

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Transcript

Sean Lavilla Podcast

[00:00:00] 

Chris Penn: Hey everybody, this is Chris with the Tiny Home Tours podcast. Today we have Sean. So Sean recently filmed a tour with us and wanted to dive deeper into his story. So Sean. Go ahead and give us your comic book story number one, where you came from, how you got into this lifestyle and we'll go from there.

Sean Lavilla: Sounds good. Appreciate you having me on today, Chris. So I would say it started with my family born and raised in the woods. We had 1500 acres of core property behind our house. So when I'd get done with school for the day, I'd jet off to the woods might be gone for a whole weekend at a time sometimes. I  joined the army straight after high school did four years in the infantry, four years in PsyOps.

And that's where I really got a taste of what van life quote unquote could be nomad life. I was part of a mounted section and we traveled all over northern Afghanistan depending on, you know, what the situation required of us at the time. And it was just incredible, like, It's pretty much like van life, just with a lot more shooting [00:01:00] and bombs.

And you had to be a lot more aware at all times, but you know, the skills that taught me, whether it was vehicle recovery, whether it was pushing through hardship, navigating difficult routes off road finding a legitimate place where you can camp and be safe. Like all these skills translated directly over and I absolutely loved it.

So got out of that. I did went to college while I was in college. I was in PsyOps, I was also a tactics trainer for movies, worked on everything from Drop Dead Divas to Vampire Diaries to Marvel Projects. When I finished all of that, I started working for Goldman Sachs. Not technically, I was in a I forget what they're called.

An apprentice position. You know, working with finance and money and stuff, and some of the directors there were joking, and they were like, after, you know, 10 years here, you go from working 100 hours a week to 75. I was like, well, I just got done working 3 jobs and going to school full time. I don't care how much money you're paying me, that's not for me.

So, I got a remote job, traded in my Audi for my truck,

and literally just started sleeping in the back of the [00:02:00] truck in the cab and hit the road, 

and 

Been all downhill since, or all uphill I guess in the truck. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, a lot, lots to unpack there. First of all thank you for your service. Really do appreciate that.

I didn't really quite understand military life and I don't, I'm, I'm like 5%. Don't, don't get me wrong, but I, I'm a big fan of Jocko Willink and listening to his podcast and under like getting Just that 5 percent has given me a massive gratitude for veterans.

So appreciate your service. But being that you have the contrast from, you know, quote, living tiny overseas in a battlefield situation. I'm curious what your thoughts are on safety on the road here in the States. And obviously you're going to have a very unique perspective of this, but. A lot of the questions we get are from people that are really nervous about camping out in the middle of nowhere, finding places to [00:03:00] park.

It's like one of their biggest hang ups. And full disclosure, I'm an ex college athlete. You're a bigger guy yourself. So we might not have the same Worries or considerations that, you know, other people might have, but from the people you met on the road and your experiences on the road traveling tiny here in the states, what, what are your thoughts on that?

Have you had any weird experiences? Is there anything in terms of safety that you've learned?

Sean Lavilla: Yeah I actually have a few solid tips on that. So I'm also a criminology minor, so you know, studying this type of behavior is something that, you know, I have some, I'm a slide a little bit of an authority in. So number one thing I can say that applies to everyone, doesn't matter if you're a former army ranger, SEAL, or if you're a 18 year old, 120 pound chick straight out of high school, is number one thing is always situational awareness.

If you're not paying attention to what's going on around you, you can't react to it, right? So it doesn't matter who you are or something. There's a potential for something to [00:04:00] happen. So if you're paying attention to your surroundings, listen to your instincts. You know, it's like, sometimes I'll pull into a spot and I'll just be like, I don't think this feels good.

And there's nothing telling me there's nothing that's actually queuing me off. And I'll just say, this doesn't feel good. When it comes to that remote camping aspect, if you look at a crime data plot map of the U S. It's around major cities, right? The more remotes you get, the less likely you're going to be to be a target of opportunity.

That's the way most criminals act. They're not, you know, serial killers that, you know, pick someone and then they go after them. Targets of opportunity are someone that, you know, they see that's easy to rob, whatever, take advantage of. So the farther away you are from civilization, the less likely you're going to be a target for one of these individuals.

And finally, for those people that are worried that listen to too many True Prime crowd pick up. Podcasts. If you just don't post where you're at currently, you know, wait a couple of weeks, tag the location after that's one SOP. The lot of my girlfriends that have, you know, big followings

followed by, and ask the people you're with to [00:05:00] respect that as well.

It's like, Hey, don't tag me 

if we're right here. Just, you know, 

wait to post the picture a week later. Don't tag the location, please. So being mindful of 

that 

Chris Penn: can you explain what SOP 

means? 

Sean Lavilla: standard operating procedure. So it's, I, I, I still get huck up on my forget what they're called the three letter acronyms and stuff. The military has over 3000 that we actively use. So I've been out for 10 years, but there's still a couple hanging in there. So yeah, standard operating procedures is something you do every time you go out.

Like for me, I'll check the ratchet straps that hold my camper down to my

truck. Make sure it's not about to fall off and make sure my tires are inflated. Make sure I have enough food and 

water for whatever

location I'm getting to. And then some, so things that keep you safe, basically, 

Chris Penn: Yeah, Yeah, the checklist. I know some people

that have a dry erase board velcroed to.

their steering wheel that they just check off as they're about to leave. I failed to do that once and almost ran over a propane tank in a 30, 000 [00:06:00] pound bus. So, 

Sean Lavilla: Your list gets longer and longer. You know, the longer you're on the road, the more things you might have, you might have that outdoor awning that stays up, might have some more chairs laid out.

Yeah. Every, every pilot. I don't care how long they've been a pilot. They still use the checklist 

to turn on that plane every 

single time.

So yeah, that's a very valid method. 

Chris Penn: Yeah. Also I want to dive into your experience with Goldman Sachs.

I too had

the experience, not to the degree of Goldman Sachs. I did my college internship and. It was the first time working a nine to five and they offered like a pretty good salary and they're like, yeah, you get two weeks off a year starting.

And I was like, two weeks off a year. What, what are you talking about? Like it, the money definitely was, was not worth it. And in your experience, you know, centering in on that experience with Goldman Sachs. Hey pup.

I 

Sean Lavilla: to come visit no matter what's going 

on. 

Chris Penn: absolutely. Yeah. My, my dog's the same way. He's always running back and forth behind me [00:07:00] and in podcasts. But

When, when it came down to the Goldman Sachs experiments what was that process like for you to say no to the money and the long work work hours? Because I always think about this question of people that get on the road. If they're just a. different type of person, they had different experiences in life, or if they hit a breaking point and then they're just like it, like that amount of money, the BMWs, the Audis they're, they're just not worth it.

Like, there's, there's more to life to this. Can you spend a little time on your thought process when that happened? Was it just like an instant, I'm not doing this, or did you have to like sit down and give yourself a week to be like, Hey, I'm giving this up for this? What, what was that process like for you?

Sean Lavilla: It was a lot longer for a week. And yeah, I think that you're right that to a certain degree there has to be a little bit of trauma for everyone that gets on the road, you know. And that could just be boredom, you [00:08:00] know, but they're at like a, you know, deathly amount of boredom. But there's a little bit of trauma for everyone you meet on the road.

For me, it was a very long process because, you know, when you're in the infantry in Afghanistan, you're putting in 20 hour days. 300 days a year. So I'm used to a heavy workload and, you know, you take pride in executing a mission and putting in maximum effort. And then, you know, when I was in college, I was working in movies.

I was in the army reserve, still doing army stuff. I was opening my own club and I was running as a GM, another club. So I was used to that workload and I wasn't getting paid much for all of that. You know, these were all just things that were trying to further me. more in life. And so I was like, all right, I'm going to go from working 80 hours a week to 75 and I'm going to be getting paid five times as much.

But throughout that whole process, I just didn't enjoy the lifestyle. I was already working around ultra wealthy. I saw what their lifestyles looked like. And I tell everyone, I was just getting pale and fat over the winter. And I was like, my money was just climbing in my bank account and I was getting more and more miserable.

I was like, what is the point of this? [00:09:00] So when I reached the end of my apprenticeship, I decided to not, you know, Continue to pursue that because it's just not worth it. You know, 75 hours a week for the rest of your life. I think some interns with Goldman broke it down in New York and they were getting paid the same amount as McDonald's workers were

getting paid.

They were just working 10 times

the amount

of hours. So 

it really just wasn't worth it from any perspective.

Chris Penn: Gotcha. That makes sense.

In terms of trauma and having things happen in your life that kind of set you out to a different path. And I have noticed that with people on the road. There's, there's something. That has happened, experiences, or they hit the breaking point, even with boredom, like it doesn't have to be a necessarily huge negative thing.

But it seems as though there's this disconnect from the hamster wheel that happens, to where they can either [00:10:00] project their life way out into the future and realize they don't want that, or something major happens to where everything that they believe to be true Is not necessarily true, you know, like again, going back to that hamster wheel and your experience, the people you've met on the road, has that been a consistent to where, when you talk to them and get to know them and they tell you their stories, that there is a pivotal thing that was kind of the breaking point, because the question that continuously goes through my mind is, I love this lifestyle, I've been doing it for a long time and the amount of people that say they want to do it, but they don't do it.

has been something I've had to learn to deal with. You know, like even my personal friends that are going through a divorce and they're really stoked on it and they're asking all the questions and we find a rig and when it comes down for them to actually do it, they don't. What, what has been your experience with people you met on the road?

Has that been a consistent thing for you?

Sean Lavilla: Absolutely. For [00:11:00] most people, I'd say the majority, it is much more of that specific instance experience. So it could be breakup, loss of job. It could be a positive experience as well. Let's say that they went to Bali and had an amazing honeymoon and then they're like, I can't go back to my job. I didn't realize that it was giving me trauma for the last five years, you know, and so that that's when they decide to break off and make that decision for themselves.

But it is definitely going to pull most people out of their comfort zone. I mean, I already got baptized in fire, you know, I didn't have a choice. After I signed up to be in Afghanistan for a year with no roof. So for me, I already understood exactly what that was going to feel like. Most people don't understand how it's going to be to, you know, sometimes you might not have a toilet, you know, you might not have running water.

Most people don't have a shower on the road still. Getting used to those adjustments is definitely a leap. But you just have to weigh the benefit versus the

cost for you. You know, like, is this something that's worth it? You're going to have to make sacrifices no 

matter

what you do in life. You just have to decide what those sacrifices are [00:12:00] going to be.

Right. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, and it's just the risk and reward 

as well. And no matter what, and I'm sure you can attest to this, human beings are very malleable. They can adjust to any situation. You know, the worst of the worst case scenarios, somebody that Becomes paralyzed studies find after a period, I think it's like two months, their baseline happiness goes back to where it was before.

Like human beings are incredibly 

malleable. And my personal experience, my, my typical rig that I built and put a lot of time and effort into is a 40 foot raised roof school bus. But my partner likes going on forest roads and back country exploring. So now I'm in a Now I'm in a four window minibus when it comes to the shower and toilet and all that, like, it's definitely an adjustment, but there really isn't that much of a difference.

As long as we're out doing what we enjoy and we're having a good time, that's, that's all that really matters. And no [00:13:00] matter what rig you get, no matter what, what you're doing, as long as you're happy, as long as you find that baseline that you're content with, it really doesn't matter.

Sean Lavilla: There's on, I would. I would argue that there almost is a difference. So I was also in psychological operations at a lot of, you know, research with the human mind. If you look at third world countries and you look at their average happiness level, I forget what the test is that, but they give it to everyone.

So it was the same. Happiness in third world countries is way higher than it is in the developed world. Suicide rates way, way, way lower in third world countries. Cause when these people are, you know, like grinding every day, working towards a specific purpose, they're getting that instant gratification with their work, whether it's harvesting something, but they planted getting home after carrying fresh water for five miles, you get a lot more gratification from things like that, then going out to a club and spending 400 on a bottle of champagne instead of 100 bottles.

Right. So for me, It's like when I get my truck unstuck, ah, victory, you know, it's when I get my [00:14:00] truck up to some cool camping spot that it took five hours of navigating some difficult trail to. That is a huge victory. And also those victories that we experience in nomad life, there, while there is some initial cost

entry it's basically free.

Once you're in the lifestyle, 

it's not that expensive to maintain besides gas. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, major, 

I guess it depends on your rig. I always tell people you definitely need to have that mechanical backup fund. I've found myself in a couple of situations, but that's, that's besides the point. Yeah, I mean, it's, have you, have you happened to read The Comfort Crisis by any chance? Or familiar with that 

book? 

Sean Lavilla: I'm familiar with it though. 

Chris Penn: So. For those listening, basically it's, it's a 

thought experiment of the comfortability of our day to day

life is actually very negative, and just like you say, and getting to that camp spot, getting your truck unstuck, people don't really get that many wins, like, our, [00:15:00] our mind is Developed just as human beings to face a problem and then get the dopamine hit once we achieve something that's out of the norm and something big and yeah, this this lifestyle will definitely.

Test you. And once you're able to get through those hurdles and come out on the other side and realize everything's okay. And that you're an actual capable human being there, you get so many wins that you normally wouldn't in the normal life that it, it definitely pays off. Also in terms of, you just mentioned the third world country being more happy compared to here.

Another aspect to our life here in the developed world is loneliness. And I'm curious, because again, being a fan of Jocko, I understand 5 percent of this aspect. But another book, Sebastian Younger, Tribe have you, are you [00:16:00] familiar with that book?

Sean Lavilla: Familiar, haven't read it again. 

Chris Penn: Well, he he was one of the filmmakers of Restrepo and Outpost in Afghanistan, and a lot of his book centers on how the human mind, and I'm probably preaching to the choir here with your psych ops experience, but how the human mind is so true. Transfixed with being part of a group in a tribe and he talks about people in the military that when they return home to the States after being overseas, they don't get the same type of brotherhood and Connection because again, you said you're working 20 hours a day you're achieving hard things, you're given maximum effort.

And then when people, veterans come back to the states, and this is what he mentions in the book, is they don't really find that. I'm curious if you have found connection and community and tribe in the nomad community, because another thing that people mention is I'm scared I'm not going to meet people.

I'm scared I'm going [00:17:00] to just be lonely. What has been your experience? I feel like You have experienced some of the highest metrics of tribe and community and brotherhood in the military. Now you're living the nomad life. Can you compare and contrast those or do you have any thoughts on that?

Sean Lavilla: Yeah, I was actually just talking to my mom yesterday that, you know, even though I love my family and everything, while I've been visiting home for the holidays, I still miss the nomadic community. So, At first, I didn't know many people. It took me a few months on the road. I also wasn't visiting locations where nomads link up, you know, but once I started doing nomad type activities, whether it be mountain biking, climbing, you're inevitably going to run into your tribe as you're doing those things.

And then whenever you're at a nomad event, you know, it's like, let's say you go to Northwest nomads, descend on bend, you're going to make friends, you know, you can't help, but make friends there. And then when you leave from these events, typically people will caravan out together. I know people that have been caravanning, you know, groups of six to 12 for [00:18:00] over a year now.

Right. But the thing is you have so much independence within that. I might, it's like some, a lot of people are more introverted that get into this lifestyle. You can literally park half a mile away from the rest of the caravan and still have access to that friend group. If you want to, that's typically what I do.

I'm typically a little bit more removed. I can go set up my chair around the campfire at any time and still be welcomed in these. You also have events every single day. So it's like, there might be some group chat and then some people are going to say, Hey, we're going to go to the park and practice sack lining.

Hey, we're going to go do acro. Hey, we're going to go you know. climbing, canyoneering, something. So not only do you have all these different things that you can do that you're interested in, you're going to develop more hobbies and make more friends. I spent a little over a month hopping around Moab.

That was my first experience, truly spending time with all the Moab or Moab so more nomads, the longer I spent there, the more things I found out I wanted to do. The more likes I discovered, the more friends I made and the deeper Moab got. Moab's a. Beautiful whole, like there is so much you can do [00:19:00] there, but yeah, it's, it's incredible.

Comparing it to the military too, while you are united by a certain purpose in the military everyone comes from very different backgrounds and it's very similar with the nomad community because everyone comes, there's a completely different reason why they got there. Someone might've sold their tech company.

Someone might've gone through a breakup, doesn't matter, but you're all there for the exact same purpose and trying to achieve the same

thing. And that is 100 percent what makes the military work. It's that being united and, you know, thought process and purpose. So it's actually very comparable. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, and,

it should be said that parking a half mile away than coming to hang out with everybody is totally acceptable within nomad groups.

Sean Lavilla: I do it every time. Like my friends were like, Hey, circle up, circle up. I'm like, no, you guys stay up too late. Or I don't want my rig to smell like campfire, you know, whatever reason you can, everyone's 100 percent respected to do their own thing and have their own space. You know, so it's a very welcoming and [00:20:00] open community for sure.

Chris Penn: So, when you first began on the road, you mentioned that you didn't really meet too many people. What was that first instance? Was it a situation to where you were just out doing your own thing and you happened to come across other nomads? Did you, or were you on the road and felt as though you wanted to go to an event?

Like what, what was that first instance to where you connected with people on the road?

Sean Lavilla: So for me, this whole trip started as a veterans awareness type of deal just for myself and my own buddies. It wasn't social media campaign. But like you said, you know, a lot of veterans struggle when they leave the community. So I was just traveling across the country, visiting all the homies, right?

And then after I'd, you know, been doing about 500 miles every two weeks to go see different guys, I was like, all right, I need to slow down a little bit. I actually want to enjoy. The time I'm spending in each area more. So I ended up getting the rig so that I could stay longer [00:21:00] in each place, you know, carry more water, carry more food, live a little bit more comfortably.

And then I started going to places like we talked about earlier, where people actually have a lot of outdoor activities and then that's where I started meeting people. I got a pup that helped a lot because everyone was just running up trying to make friends with Coda. So I made friends through her.

But then going through those activities, you know, you hear about a cool mountain biking trail. You pull. you're gonna make friends there, you know, or if you're canyoneering at a spot, maybe a rope swing, whatever it might be, waterfall hike, you'll make friends wherever you go as long as you're actually getting out there and doing it, you know, if you sit in your rig And you watch, you know, movies all day, hike with your headphones on, like you're not going to make a lot of people, so you have to be a little bit intentional about it, but they're definitely out there. 

Chris Penn: And then how did the first event come about for you? 

Sean Lavilla: I'm trying to remember which my first, I think it was Nomad Prom with Outsiders Together. 

So I dove in headfirst with this one. I, I met some, yeah, so [00:22:00] I just added myself to the group on Facebook. And as I was walking around, I saw I had just posted and someone saw a code and they're like, oh, I just saw your Post with Coden, the group.

We actually have a Nomad Prom happening over here in the desert in about a week. So I went thrifting. I got myself a tight little dress. For the record, I'm like 220 pounds. I work out sometimes. So I got myself a little spaghetti strap dress. I was like, I'm gonna crash this thing. Like if this community doesn't like it, I'll at least think it's freaking hilarious.

So I get there and it was a hit. Everyone loved it. They're like, Oh my gosh, there's a puppy in a Big ass man in a dress. So, I made, I think I made friends with everyone right off the bat. So, made a hundred nomad friends immediately. And then the rest has been easy because once you get in with one little nomad group, and it could be a group of three people, you know you're going to hear about other things.

So, you know, from there, like I heard about a million events like Descendant Bin, Northwest Nomads the one that's happening in Phoenix in a couple months, like. [00:23:00] It's there's more than you can work with moonlanding. I mean, there's literally something happening every month. If you really wanted to travel around And be a van life, you know, groupie, almost you could 100 percent do that. 

Chris Penn: And then how was that once you actually started hanging out with people? Was it because me, I'm, I'm a bit of an introvert

and I have to have time with people and then I need time alone. What was this, what was that like for you caravaning? Because you go from a truck visiting your buddies to being part of this community.

Did you have to have like a little bit of alone time or were you just all in, hey, I'm traveling with people, I'm going to event to event. How, how are you handling that?

Sean Lavilla: So I, I actually take my alone time between every event. So I know I'm going to see X amount of friends and that number just goes up exponentially with every event. But I know I'm going to see all these people and they're going to be surrounded me for three straight days. So for me, I typically do my own thing between events.

I think only last 16 months, only twice for a period of a couple of weeks to a month did I spend time with extra [00:24:00] people between events. But even then, like I said, I was camped half a mile away. I might just run my dirt bike all day or do my own things and then join in the group when I felt like it.

So. Definitely took time for myself in between each event and then even at the events I wouldn't get caravan up with my friends. You might have rigs on either side of you, but I would still do my own thing You know, you have plenty of time to interact. I almost treat the events as like overlanding expos You know because you can just walk around see so many cool people see so many cool rigs live music Whatever and then you can choose

your own adventure from there Whether you want to be on the dance floor till 2 in the morning making friends or you want to go to bed at 9? You know, there's no problem with either one

Chris Penn: Yeah, that makes sense. So when it comes down to you traveling around you're visiting your buddies and it was time to figure out a rig. Was a truck camper something you were always considering? I assume because you traded. your car for the truck. Was the plan always a truck camper or how, how did that process come [00:25:00] about to picking an actual rig like a, a tiny home?

Sean Lavilla: I had a motorcycle. So, I wasn't even thinking about overall lifestyle. I guess, you know, subconsciously I was, because a goal for me was to keep the motorcycle with me. So it started off with knowing what type of things I wanted to do. You know, so. Got the truck, put the bike on the back, hit the road, and then I knew I'd have versatility with the truck, too.

So if I did want to go the truck camper route, I could. If I wanted to get a small trailer, that was an option. If I wanted to get a huge trailer for a toy hauler or something, that was an option as well. And so, after two, three months on the road I was like, no, for me getting to crazy locations, like, that's the goal.

I don't want to drive 200 miles to Mt. Whatever, and then I have to camp 100 feet south of the peak. You know? So, getting to those crazy views was the goal for me, so that's why I opted for the in bed camper setup versus a trailer. 

Chris Penn: And then when it came down to getting your actual truck camper, what [00:26:00] was that process like for you? 

Sean Lavilla: I, truck campers, for some reason, are inordinately expensive. So, when you're looking at a tow trailer, You can get them cheap and then build your own for like, you know, three grand. If you're getting a professional one, you can get one used Facebook marketplace, six to 10 grand. That will function. And then, you know, work on it from there.

New truck bed campers and even used around 35 to 45 grand. They're crazy expensive. I know a few people that have built their own, but I'm not, you know, inclined like that skills wise. I knew it just rattled apart. And as soon as I hit a trail, I'd have a box or a truck full of kindling. So I was just looking at keeping my eye on what was open.

I wasn't looking to pull the trigger immediately on anything, but I joined another Facebook group truck bed camping and this guy the one that built mine out. Endgame campers. He has this YouTube channel if you guys want to check it out But he posted two rigs for sale at the same time and he said he was only planning on selling one of them But me and another guy [00:27:00] reached out the day.

He posted it and we're like, hey I'm on my way to Vegas like keep it open for me. I got to have this. So I got mine for 15 grand which was about half of what I was planning on spending and it's yeah I know man, I know and he put about he said he put and I believe it about 500 hours into it So I mean on labor alone Like I'm coming out with a win and it's beautiful if when you guys go check out the YouTube channel or you know My Instagram later, you'll see it but it has this beautiful little log cabin feel it's very cozy.

It doesn't feel like some Corporate clamshell that you're going to get from a lot of RV places when it comes to campers And I was like this has got to be it. I love this like it feels like i'm already So yeah, I pulled the trigger immediately on that

Chris Penn: Yeah, 15, 000. That's, that's insane. With the build itself, not necessarily, it sounds as though, and it looked as though the build quality was fantastic, but going to the truck camper anything with the [00:28:00] build that you would change or anything that you love, any insights for those looking into truck campers?

Sean Lavilla: Make sure it's got enough headspace. So gentleman that built it's a couple inches shorter than me So the roof set a slant So if i'm at one end I have to duck down a little bit or spread my legs if i'm brushing my teeth over the sink The other side I completely stand up in but even after being in it for almost a year now I still forget And I'll just give myself a little bonk.

So yeah, just as long as you like have room to stand erect, then that's what I would suggest. There's a lot of cheaper options out there too, where you can have a popup tent. I just know myself, I'm lazy. If I had to pop it up every night, I'd probably spend half my nights camping in my truck. But if you have the willpower.

Crank or get a motorized crank and do that for two to three minutes every night. That's a much cheaper option when you're getting into the truck bed camper lifestyle. And you can also get a lot more places with it too. You're not as top heavy. You can go through drive through windows. If that's a thing that you like, you [00:29:00] know,

Chris Penn: Yeah, and so when it comes down to your current setup, you do have a motorcycle on the back. you have the truck. How's that been working for you? Is that something been enjoying? It seems like it'd be a pretty amazing setup.

Sean Lavilla: It's so freaking cool because the truck bed camper is just enough for me space wise, like, I really don't need or even want anything more, because otherwise, as I just, as I said, it would take a longer time to get to my kitchen, you know, it's like, there's no reason that I can't do everything from my couch or standing up centrally located.

And with the the motorcycle, I can just get everywhere. So I like to park my truck somewhere that's typically pretty difficult to get to, but has a really good view. You don't feel like packing up all your spices, packing up your whole rig, driving it down and up, you know, a 45 minute to two hour drive every time.

You can go three to four times faster on the dirt bike, you know, on those trails. And it's a lot more fun getting in and out instead of worrying about every bump. Am I about to shake my rig apart? You know, so park that thing, have a cool camp [00:30:00] spot for a couple of weeks and then zoom in and out on the bike.

So it's the ultimate mobility setup. I love it. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, that sounds amazing. In terms of these spots that you're finding can you go through the process of how you find these spots and do you do any? Like Google Earth views and just check the trail and make sure your truck can handle it. Like, how are you, one, finding them, and how are you vetting the places that you're going to?

Sean Lavilla: So Google Earth is definitely one option. I typically go to iOverlander or The Dyrt so iOverlander, I have it filtered. So it's dispersed camping, which that way you're guaranteed to be camping legally. That's one big thing I'm on. So year and a half on the road, I have never camped in a Walmart or Cracker Barrel, and I've never gotten knocked on, you know, with that's that military planning we're talking about part of the checklist.

Don't just set off on the road and be like, Oh, I'm going to pull over when I get tired. A you don't know when that's going to happen. B, you're going to end up camping at a bunch of crappy spots. Like no one joined van life to camp at Walmart, right? [00:31:00] So year and a half, I just did a little bit of prior planning.

I'm I never ever extended my drives. You know, I could drive for 20 hours if I want to, but I want to see the sites. So no, keep it to four or five hours a day. Maximum make sure I have some cool campsite. And between the two of those, you'll find a good spot. And, you know you can look at all the photos online and I have to spend a little bit more time clicking around.

Obviously having a four by four rig extends your options a lot there as well. But with a little bit of prior planning, then you can get to some cool spots. The dirt, you can filter by signal as well for your cell phone provider. And I was working remote full time. So being able to, and I didn't have Starlink, which was dumb.

Everyone should get Starlink for the record, but I would have to find a Verizon place to park and hotspot from every time. So between the two of those that worked out or just meeting people, you'll meet a lot of people that, you know, have their own private campsites. They're not gatekeeping, but they also don't want some beautiful place to completely overrun.

So they don't even post it and so you meet some people, they'll send you some coordinates, they're like, hey. And it's like, the most beautiful gift you can get, cause they're just like, this place is special to me, [00:32:00] I trust it with you, I'll share it with you, and it's like, oh, thank you. And then you just get to some of the coolest spots. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, some of the best spots I've ever been to is that particular thing. Cause I'm huge into, I love fly fishing. And when somebody shares not only their spot, but their fly fishing spot, and you get there and it's like just this amazing, you're just like, okay, I understand why you don't share it. I greatly, greatly appreciate it. 

I'm curious. So this, this is something that happens to a lot of people when they first get on the road. They and it sounds like you did the same thing with your buddies to where people first get on the road. It's nonstop. They're going non stop. They're going from place to place. And they're not really seeing the sights.

It's like they're on Interstate 70 and they're going across the country, you know. And then finally they get to the point to where they start to slow down. Instead of spending one night in each spot, it's more of like, Okay, now I'm here. We're spending two weeks. Did you experience that at all? Or was it once you got the truck camper that was kind of your slow down period for you?

Sean Lavilla: [00:33:00] Yeah, so, I started slowing down at places where I could. buT the truck camper definitely helped me extend my stays at certain places. But, I just got road wear. It was like, I would look at all the miles I was missing between, you know, let's say Seattle visiting one friend and SF visiting another. I'm like, I know there's a lot of good stuff in between here that I'm just not seeing, right?

So my New Year's resolution was to consume less and enjoy more with all I expect in life, so whether that be food, drinking you know, relationships or camp spots, you know, it's like I'm gonna spend, you know, instead of just drive through Yosemite, I wanna spend a week in Yosemite, I actually wanna hit a bunch of trails, spend two weeks, you know thoroughly take advantage of the spots you're at, because the longer you stay somewhere, the more you remember. beautiful hidden gems you're going to find and that like, once you start doing that, once you start learning to really appreciate, you know, where you're at and whether that be, you know, mentally, emotionally, physically in life, then you're going to get a lot more enjoyment out of it

Chris Penn: Yeah, so that, that did that news resolution, that did prove to [00:34:00] be valuable for you. 

Sean Lavilla: in in invaluable. So, I mean, Uh, the difference between my first six months on the road and the last year were like, completely different experiences. Like, if I just close my eyes and think back for the first six months, I've got some beautiful memories of some highway sunsets with some new music or maybe parked up along, you know, the 101 in LA or the one in LA, like, you know, right up in Santa Monica, you know, those are like the major.

Memories I have and then when I close my eyes and think about you know after I slowed down and got the camper It's just a completely different reel. There's campfires. There's friends laughing. There's you know, big family dinners There's small private dinners for myself in cool locations It's a very different life once you slow it down and actually take the time to appreciate what's around you and do some research into what's around you to you know, Google a hot spring anytime you're anywhere hot springs near me You know something like that. 

Chris Penn: [00:35:00] Yeah, we, we have some of those here as well. Yeah, I mean, I feel as though, I mean, this is my personal opinion. I feel like this lifestyle kind of forces You because there's only so many 12 hour driving days that you can have before you realize that might not be for you. And then once you're forced into that slow down period and be, you're able to compare and contrast what it was before to now, like it really gives you the very blunt in your face reality of that.

And that's one of my favorite aspects of this lifestyle is the Forcing of slowing down and just sitting in one spot and enjoying what's around you to what you typically don't get that in day to day life. I'd love to center in a little bit more because you mentioned you have Starlink now, and by the way, this podcast, I'm on Starlink right now.

I absolutely love it. Absolute game changer. But in terms of income on the road again, go into the questions we get a lot. People are worried about the remote

income. [00:36:00] How has that been working for you? Is it something that was a major transition for you or was it just the mindset? This is what I need to do.

I'm going to get it done. And how did you get a remote income job?

Sean Lavilla: So I got mine through my club connections slash restaurant connections. But it was an entry-level, cold calling job. So I can't say that it was anything that no one can achieve. So there's, but for me, I was like, you know, I can either sit at home, make a bunch of money, you know, with Goldman, get fat and sad and pale and waste my life.

or I can suck it up for a couple hours a day, make some cold calls and then enjoy the rest of my life. So I definitely chose a little bit more pain for a lot more gain. Also, like we said, a lot of people that get into this lifestyle are more introvertly focused. So there's two career paths. Always tell people that they can go on.

They can either go some sort of programming route or that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be programming. I recommend cyber security. I think I've got probably five army buddies that are on track to get their certs right now. So [00:37:00] super. easy to get. They're very inexpensive, incredibly valuable.

It's one of the fastest growing career fields out there. All of my army buddies that are doing it, I think except for one who just started already have job offers because as you're going through the certification process, you get different certs along the way. So you're going to have companies reaching out to you and say, Hey, we have a job for you before you even finish the program.

It's the one career field I'd say is like pretty safe right now. If you want to make maybe more money, certainly more money in the long run, you can literally get a job as a business development representative. Like cold calling people. If you get one in New York or LA, so, I mean, you're working remote, right?

You don't need to apply to jobs in Montgomery, Alabama, focus on New York, LA SF, these jobs are going to start anywhere from. 40 to typically closer to 70 or 80 base, you're going to get another, you know, 2030 commission after a year or two, you can transition into a role account executive and in the tech industry, account executives get paid insane money.

It's honestly. Not even fair. [00:38:00] You'll get anywhere from one 20 to maybe after five years, maybe two 50 base. And then another uncapped commission after that. When I was a business development representative, Cole Pauling, my AEs were working on big accounts, you know just name any major company that you can.

Imagine who they are, but these guys are pulling in 300, 400 a year, maybe working five hours a week, so it's if you want You know a lot of freedom for the lifestyle, and

you're not afraid of talking to people as long as you hit your quota They don't really care what you're doing, so It's an easy option if you want to save time, and you don't want to get any certs. 

Chris Penn: Yeah. When like, like I mentioned, doing the channel for ten years. A good solid seven of that was not sustainable income. So I had to find other income. And a friend of mine is a real estate agent in Nashville, and they needed a ISA, inside sales agent. So from 5 a. m. To 9 a. m. Seven days a week, I would, because I [00:39:00] was out in 

Arizona for part of it, and I would be cold calling expired, withdrawn, And remove listings.

And trying to get them to sign up with our brokerage. And it was like one of those things to where putting the time in, getting told no more in one morning than most people get told no the entire year. And then I'd work on the bus after. But yeah, it was putting that time and effort in and it's jobs people typically don't want.

But if you have the drive and you're working towards a better future. You just wake up at 4. 30, start making the calls at 5, and you just have that future, future in mind. I did not realize the cyber security, that makes complete sense.

Sean Lavilla: Yeah, but I mean, listen to what he just said. Done by nine. Who's done by nine? You know, as long as you can, you know, get okay with people saying no to you. And that was one thing I always train people rejection handling. That's something is huge in psychological [00:40:00] operations. You know, it's like, unless you do a solid prep, you know, you're a lot of the things you're trying to negotiate for are going to get shut down.

As long as you're okay with that, the award, the rewards are huge. Like, let's say that you're only getting 50, a hundred two hundred dollars a commission per yes on the phone. Still, it's like I could completely shut off in my mind. Someone saying no to me, it's like, who cares? I'm never going to talk to this person again.

It literally does not affect me, but every time you get a yes, that's another extra a hundred, 200 for your adventure, for your rig, whatever you're doing, so as long as you get okay with being said no to, it's honestly not. Difficult. So yeah, it's not that bad. 

Chris Penn: The cyber security, I, I didn't realize, like it makes complete sense, but it just clicks in my brain, like that would be 

such an awesome thing to do. Obviously working remotely targeting specific cities where their base pay like somebody wouldn't work for 60, 000 making cold calls, but you're on the road. Yeah, sign, sign me up. So if, if you don't mind sharing your army [00:41:00] buddies, did they share starting salary for the jobs they got offered for? And just, just again, just more context for those that are like listening to this be like. Holy shit, I could potentially make 60, 000 doing this

Sean Lavilla: No, I think the lowest one I saw was 40 something and even then that was because it was like part time something that they were still finishing their program and they wanted to get more certs. And that's another thing too. If you have enough certs, you can get a job anywhere. So for those of you that aren't in the lifestyle yet, or even if you are in the lifestyle and you have another job.

You can do an online program, take your time with it, get the certs as you have time to complete them. And then by the time you do hit the road or by the time you're ready to hit the road, you're going to have a salary that works for your budget. So, you know, if you don't need that much money and get one cert, get a 40 K job.

Cool. If you have more expenses, if you have a family, if you need a bigger rig, for whatever reason, you can spend two years getting certifications and then go work for Amazon and be bringing in over a hundred right off the rip, no questions. So it really just depends on, you [00:42:00] know, what your needs are and what type of work you're willing to put in. 

Chris Penn: and you're like the the hundred working for Amazon You're specifically talking about cyber security or are you 

Sean Lavilla: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cyber security specifically, no programming or at least little programming. There's a lot that goes into it. If anyone's interested, reach out to me on instagram after this, we'll post the link for it. I've got a buddy that I was in psyops with that has been in cyber security for, I think, 15 years.

One of the smartest people I know, he runs a huge discord channel where any topic you can think of is in there. So whether it's red team, blue team stuff, anything else, I don't know about cybersecurity, which is everything. There's a topic for that. They practice, they do drills with you to help you get hired.

It's a very, very beneficial community to be a part of if you have any questions. So reach out to me after this, if you have any questions about that and it's free, obviously.  

Chris Penn: Huge ,thanks for offering that and mentioning that this is a whole new world for me and it makes complete sense [00:43:00] So A couple other things to add to that, and they might even mention that in the group that you mentioned. I can't find the one that I'm specifically looking for, but there's a book called Fanatical Prospecting, which, when it comes to cold calling and the mentality of it all, Fanatical Prospecting is fantastic. Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. All about negotiation. Yeah. 

Sean Lavilla: read that one probably three times and also the things he teaches They're very similar to what we did in psychological operations So if you want to be halfway to manipulating your friends and loved ones read that book

Chris Penn: So I found the book and we're, we were just talking about no, and if we're piquing your interest, we're kind of nerding out on this, if not, sorry, but there's a book called Rejection Proof. And To be honest, doing the cold call thing, I think I was pretty okay with it because before I heard it in Chris Voss's book, his, his statement of no is the beginning of the negotiation.

That was just inherently in [00:44:00] me. Like if somebody tells me no, I'm just like, okay, here, here we go. But rejection proof is basically this guy that He had extreme anxiety from getting rejected and basically he just made himself get rejected for, I think it was 90 days. So every day he went out and got, he purposely tried to get told no.

And one of the examples is he went to a fast food place and he just requested something incredibly silly. He's like, hey you know, this meal is 10. Can you give it to me for 4? And the cashier was like, what? He's like, yeah, I would just like to pay 4. And he's like, and lo and behold, like, she went back, asked her manager, and they gave me a discount, and I got it for 4.

And that's just like a small example of just being used to being told no. If you're used to it, and you're asking for different aspects or things that you want, it's okay to be told no. Cause the worst thing that's going to happen is [00:45:00] you get told no and life still goes on. It's not like this big negative thing that everybody, and again, going back to psych ops human beings don't like being told no, you know, rejection is a very deep seated fear for a lot of us.

But if you get past that, there's a very, very bright tunnel towards, towards the end of that with a lot of possibilities. 

Sean Lavilla: So, 

Chris Penn: but with the with, with your work now, Are you working cybersecurity? Are you doing some other type of remote work job? Like what, what are you doing for income on the road now?

Sean Lavilla: I'm currently a carpet walker. I got out of tech. I have had some buddies from my club days in Atlanta. I want to say club days on Random Embers only speakeasy, not me going out and partying till 6am. On the weekends, but I had some buddies that had been getting me or trying to get me to open my own restaurant for years.

And finally they convinced me to do it. So I'm back in Atlanta right now. I'm opening a restaurant in Duluth [00:46:00] called Knox house, K N O X house. That should be open around the May, April timeframe, depending on how fast or general contractor can. Get their stuff together, but it's going to be incredible.

So very family friendly place. 5, 000 square foot porch, right on the city green where they have all their concerts, giant sandwiches, gelato wifi, coffee big fireplace for the winter cocktails to go. It's an open container zone. So growlers, wine, you name it.

Very firm, family friendly place. so come up there and say, hi, I saw you heard me on the podcast. I'll give you a drink or something when I see you.

Chris Penn: That's awesome. Appreciate that. So what, what does a nomad life look for you now? I mean, if you open a restaurant and I've learned the hard way that when you create your baby, nobody's going to treat your baby like you treat your baby. So are you going to live nomadically? Every once in a while is that like a chapter that's done now you're on to the next thing and no no judgment at all I just want to clarify that but [00:47:00] like what what does that look like for you?

Sean Lavilla: So I've been consulting for restaurants for years after I stopped doing it full time. So I've had lots of little babies and most of them are mom and pop places that heard of me through friends. So it's not like I'm consulting for Applebee's. It's like a 50 year old Italian deli that's been run by the same family for years.

So I take a lot of pride in each little project I've had, you know, getting these families To where they can be self sustaining. I'm lucky at this point to have partners that are trying to do multiple projects. So my goal is to just open them, get them to a really solid place, make a really cool thing for some really cool city, be able to travel for a couple months and then do another project.

So, you know, we're in Duluth right now. Maybe we'll be in Greenville next year, Charleston. These are all set. cities on the east coast for most of you that are probably listening from the west coast. But these are like, you know, small, really cool family cities. And then I'll have a bunch of people. It's like making new friends, you know, it's like, I'll be able to go back checking on the restaurant, make sure it's doing [00:48:00] good, you know, see my friends and then, you know, go back and hit the road for a couple months, then work on another project.

So that's the dream. We'll see how optimistic I'm being, how realistic I is, but that's the goal for now.

Chris Penn: That's amazing, man We we have a shop in Kansas and my business partner there is kind of in the same I we, we talk once a week every Tuesday and he was just saying, and it's Wednesday by the way he was just saying, yeah, man, I need to get to the point to where I can work really hard and take two months off and then come back to my baby.

Cause I like doing it. I just need like that, that, that timeout and this lifestyle definitely affords you those, those opportunities. When it comes 

Sean Lavilla: that's one. Oh, go 

Chris Penn: sorry, go, go go ahead. 

Sean Lavilla: So that's one thing we've been talking about Jocko Wilnick a little bit. His book Extreme Ownership is invaluable. Every single military and non military person should read it. I had the opportunity, for better or worse, of having listened Probably 50 different first line supervisors in an eight year career where most people might [00:49:00] have four that gave me a huge opportunity to see all these different people coming from different bases where there's essentially completely different leadership cultures that have been passed down through generations and choosing my own leadership style out of that, whether it's things I liked in a leader or things I didn't like, I just added it to who I wanted to be as a leader.

Jocko does an incredible job of articulating all of those and more. Some of them were things that I recognized for myself immediately. Some were things that have been in my mind and I just didn't have a term for them. And some of them are unique experiences that he had through his vision and his place of observation in the seals.

So incredible book, whether it's, you know, leadership for. You know, your job or just taking charge of your own life and taking ownership for it's like, Hey, I'm miserable where I'm at right now. Why can't I make a change? Like, this is my help. You take steps towards changing that. 

For me, it applies to how I run restaurants as well. Like. If I don't have a solid leadership team that can completely operate with me gone, then I'm doing my job wrong. Like ideally I should be able [00:50:00] to spend all my time with my guests, you know, help out whenever the team, you know, is in the weeds, need some help.

But if you have a leadership team for your business and you're the owner and you still have to be nose in the ground every single day, you're not. Operating that correctly, you know, no one gets into business ownership, so that way they can work all the time they get into business ownership, so that way they can be free at times, you know, if you want to have a job where, you know, you're working a 9 to 5 or whatever, and you can be free after work, like, you can do that.

So if you're an ownership and you're not free after work, there's an issue there. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, when I was building my bus that book had just come out, or, yeah, I think it just came out, and I listened to that twice in a row, building my bus, like, right when I finished it, I immediately went back to the beginning and listened to it over again because there's just so much. that's applicable to your day to day life.

And yeah, Jocko's a former Navy SEAL, just a complete badass, like super amazing dude. But [00:51:00] even people not in the military, I think could gain so much. If there's anything that's going on in your life that you don't like, it's nobody else's fault. It's yours. Like you could make the adjustments. You can go in and fix things the way you want it to be.

And it's nobody else's fault. I, I definitely like where I'm at today. That book definitely helped. It was a, 

It was a massive help, and I absolutely agree with you. You gotta build things the way that you want it to be, and if it's not, nobody's fault but yours.

Sean Lavilla: gonna have to put some work in but as long as you do it, you can fix it It's not gonna be easy. No one said that. 

Chris Penn: So, I know we're coming up to an hour. I'm curious how, Food came about. It seems like you just have a lot going on that you're doing pretty well at. Whether it be fitness, whether it be food, whether it be getting on the road. And I'm curious how that all [00:52:00] How does food mix in? How does nomad life?

How does working out? Like, how did all these different things come together for you? And how, how are you keeping up with them and excelling at them?

Sean Lavilla: Well, the short answer is I work out outside then I get hungry. So That answers everything right there. But no, honestly food's always been a passion of mine. My dad's from Cuba He's this incredible chef. So every day I just got to eat these amazing home cooked meals like didn't matter how late he was working He'd always come home and make some amazing food Both sides of my family amazing chefs where there be Cuba So the white side of my family that does all this amazing southern cooking.

So food's always been a part of my life and my culture. But when it comes to doing them all well, I forget who said it, but there's someone that is huge on. Taking, focusing on one single thing at a time so you can do 10 things in your life. If you spend one hour a day that you're completely [00:53:00] focused on that thing, you're gonna be getting more done.

Most people, you know, it's like if you have a dream, they don't set a timeline, then it never becomes, you know, an actual goal or something that's achievable. They just think about it. If you spend an hour a day executing something, you're gonna do it well. So when I'm working out, you know, I'm not. Thinking about other things.

I'm not thinking about sandwiches. I'm going to run as hard as I can. I'm going to lift as heavy as I can. When I'm done with that portion of the day, I'm done with it. Then I'm going to focus on the restaurant. Like, all right, today I'm writing out my menu. So I'm going to spend, you know, as long as it takes or that allocated amount of time working on that.

And on top of all of that, I can just say I'm incredibly competitive, even with myself. I always say, if you don't know it's a competition, you're probably losing. So I just treat everything as a competition and it might not be the healthiest mindset, but you know, if you're former military, you probably know what I'm talking about.

If I see someone in the gym, I don't care if I've never met them before, if they're bigger than me, I'm like, hell yeah, screw that guy. I'm going to be bigger than you in a few weeks, you know? So just trying to be better than everybody, but for the benefit of everyone, you know, it's like, I'm not. Trying to get huge and be a jerk.

I'd [00:54:00] like, I want to work out with my friends. I try to get my friends in the gym every day and learn more so I can train them. You know? So as long as you're using your powers for good, not for evil, then it's okay to be competitive. 

Chris Penn: Yeah, that's my competitive streak is something I've had to mitigate over the the years. Whether it be pickleball or Basketball or online, yeah. 

Is, is there anything else that you wanted to touch on that you think would be applicable to those considering getting on the road? I think we really touched on a lot of important topics, but you know, if, if you were to speak directly to that, like 20 percent of the 20%, That are, like, they're just, like, right on the edge, they're thinking about it, but they just can't get over that hump.

Do you have any particular advice for them? Anything that we didn't cover?

Sean Lavilla: Yeah, so I alluded to this earlier but stop making Stop just having wishes being wishes, you know You have to attach a timeline to these things with [00:55:00] realistic steps. You can take along the way That turns it into a goal and break it down as small as you need to. It makes it an achievable goal. So you have to have a plan.

You can't just be watching YouTube all the time, as much fun as it is, and imagining being on the road. You have to say, all right, I have to be in this rig or I have to be in this place. I have to make this amount of money. I need to have this job, give yourself a realistic timeline and start executing on it.

You know, the first step is the longest and the hardest step. But once you take that first step, it's all downhill from there and everything's achievable. Every single thing anyone wants to do is achievable as long as you break it into smaller goals. So that's my, my task for you guys, write it down, make it real.

Chris Penn: Yeah, I think one big aspect is understanding and realizing what mental masturbation is and how you can watch the videos you feel like you're doing something, but unless you're actually, like you said, writing out your goals, unless you're actually taking steps, [00:56:00] you're really not doing anything. You're making yourself feel better in the short term, but in the long term, you're just going nowhere.

Sean Lavilla: Yep. 100%. And for me, like sometimes it feels backwards. Like right now I'm, you know, at my parents house for Christmas, then I'm going to be, you know, carpet walking for six months to a year with the restaurant. So it might, you know, intuitively seem like, Oh, you're leaving road life for this, but it's setting up a much longer term goal for me where I can have several restaurants fully, you know, functioning, operated and be on the road full time and not be cold calling people. 

Right. 

Chris Penn: Right. Well, I mean, you're, you're sacrificing your present for a better future. And I think that's a cornerstone to the mentality that you're kind of going to, that. 

Yeah, it's, it's easier to sit down and watch the YouTube videos. It's a hell of a lot harder to actually put the cold, hard cash into buying a composting toilet or saving up.

Like, not going out to the, you know, out to eat or spending money on something that you really don't need. It's, it's [00:57:00] a hell of a lot harder. to take those actions to save up for your rig or get that emergency fund on the road than it is just to sit down in front of a video and feel like you're actually doing something.

So, I mean, it makes complete sense to me, especially if you have that big of goals. And I don't know, I know a couple of people that went into the bar or restaurant. Seen before mobile income, I was a bar back server bartender. So I've been in there and got to know the owners. It's not an easy route that you're about to go down from my experience.

It's a lot of work. It's a lot of effort and you have to have the passion and you being willing to experience the lifestyle, get a taste of it and then stop it for a bigger goal in the future is Like it's it's no small thing and 

Sean Lavilla: And I mean, things are going to go wrong for 

sure. Yeah, it's not always a linear progression, you know, sometimes things are gonna get really rough, and it's gonna feel like you're backtracking for me, I'm huge on religious freedom, whatever you are, kudos to you, for me personally, I'm Christian, and for me, I just have [00:58:00] peace in any situation, I know, hey, like, this sucks, I'm stuck right now, I feel like I'm stuck in life, whatever, whatever.

Whatever. I know I'm going to get out of it one day. I know God's got me and whatever's going to happen from this is going to make me a stronger person at the end of the day. I always say bad experiences are just good stories at the end of the day. So, you know, sit it out, you know, pray about it, you know, be grateful for where you're at.

And then, you know, set those goals to get yourself out of that situation and you can do anything. 

Chris Penn: Yep, it's a character builder. That's for sure

Sean Lavilla: Yeah, Like digging holes, so much character. 

Chris Penn: yeah when when I was building my bus I'd make a mistake this is the first big undertaking of my life and To this day, I, I can still see the scratches and the miscut things. I'm just like, yeah, just adds character. Move on to the next one. 

Sean Lavilla: There you go. It's a great attitude to have. 

Chris Penn: But yeah, man if people want to you know, reach out about the mobile income or keep up with you with the restaurant or what you're up to. And just for those listening and watching, this will all be [00:59:00] linked down below. But if people want to touch base with you, how can they reach out and And see what you're up to.

Yeah, so it's Livinlavillaloca on Instagram

Sean Lavilla: Or you can also reach me still have the same email I had in the military. That's S G T abbreviation for Sergeant. And then my last name, L A V I L L A at gmail.com. 

So if you really want to get in touch with me and have, you know, want to have an extended conversation about anything, I'm completely open to talk just in the subject line that doesn't look like it. It's coming from someone that cold calls people and I'll get in touch with you. 

Chris Penn: You have some some leftover feelings on that, huh? 

Sean Lavilla: I mean, it's like we said it, you know, it's healthy to get said no to, it makes a lot of things in life easier, you know when it comes to sales for sure,  but yeah, a little trauma forever. 

Chris Penn: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, hey, thanks for your time today. I greatly appreciate you being here. 

Sean Lavilla: Appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me on Chris.[01:00:00]